Solar Cookers World Network

Tom Sponheim

Bureaucrat Admin
41,512 Edits since joining this wiki
December 13, 2006

Earlier discussions have been archived.

Hi Tom,

I want to add my solar cooker design to the design website.

Sunny regards,


Hii Tom,

Thanks for getting in touch with me about my new cupcake solar cooker page. I've just put the photos in, and tried to explain the process and safety as clearly as possible. Any suggestions very welcome. This is my first ever wikihow page. Regards Helen DawsonHdawsond 12:51, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Hdawsond 12:51, November 9, 2011 (UTC)

Parabolic solar reflectors

Hi Tom.

As you know, I have been doing some edits on the "Parabolic Solar Reflectors" page. I've added some information, and done some tidying, while trying not to be offensive to people who have used the page to document their own achievements and those of others.

I have also recently been doing some editing to the "Solar cooker" page on Wikipedia. If you compare them, you'll see some strong similarities between these two pages. In particular, there's a paragraph about Sheffler cookers which is identical in both. I wrote it, originally in Wikipedia, and figured it would be appropriate here too. Certainly, it is better than the one it replaced. Since everything in Wikipedia is public-domain, and also since I am the original author, I can't imagine that there will be any copyright problems.

DOwenWilliams 15:24, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Dowen. I saw your edits. You have improved the page greatly. Don't worry about Wikipedia. There shouldn't be a problem. We really appreciate your collaboration. We are working to get more active editors like you.
Tom Sponheim 18:47, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

Fresnel Solar Cookers

Hi Tom:

I just noticed that you're working on a piece about Fresnel Solar Cookers. (Apparently you made a post tomorrow! It's still only 2130 GMT.)

I've never tried using plastic Fresnel lenses for cooking, but I have used them for other things. They do have some drawbacks. After a while in the sun, the plastic becomes dark and brittle. If it gets hot, it melts and deforms. Small deformations have large effects on the lenses' focusing abilities. Also, the lenses are difficult to keep clean. The ridges trap dirt.

It's a neat idea, but I think some practical experiments should be done before recommending these things to the solar cooking world.

Happy New Year.

DOwenWilliams 21:40, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Dowen. I agree that they are not a good idea in general. I'll use some of your concerns in the article. Tom Sponheim 03:27, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

hello tom

thank you for given the website to ease my project work. i have better understanding and many referrences are took in the sites. i will send you a copy for editing before i pass it to my lecture.

matar samba university of the Gambia

Hi. We look forward to seeing your work. Tom Sponheim 18:01, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

Editor glitches

Hi Tom:

Of late, I've been seeing some glitches in the editor while I've been making edits to the Parabolic Solar Reflectors page. I've been able to work around them until just now, when the section headings in the article have somehow got messed up, so they don't appear in the table of contents. I haven't found a way to fix this.

Can you give it a strong kick in the appropriate place?

On a related topic, is there any way to exit the editor without publishing an edit? Sometimes, when I'm experimenting with formats, I decide that I'm not making improvements, so I'd like just to cancel what I've been doing and leave the article as it was before I started. In Wikipedia and other sites, there's a "Cancel" button that I can click on to do this, but I haven't found such a thing here. Am I missing something? If there isn't such a button, could one be added?



DOwenWilliams 18:42, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Hi, David. Can you send me a link to exactly where this error is appearing (or send pasted text?). To exit the article and throw away your changes, just click the Back button. You will see a pop-up where you can choose "Leave this page." Thanks for your edits!
Tom Sponheim 23:33, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Ok. Here's a chunk of text I just copied from the article. This is *not* copied from the editor. It's from the article as it appears when I try to read it.. It's from near the top of the article, just above the table of contents.

One disadvantage of a parabolic reflector is that the solar energy is concentrated in a very small area, too small to be desirable for most cooking purposes. Moreover, this area moves quickly across the cooking container, unless the parabola is adjusted frequently. Parabolas with focal lengths of 1 to 3 meters (3 to 10 feet) are most useful for solar cooking. The focal length is the distance from the center of the parabolic surface to the focus. The solar image diameter is about 1/120 the focal length. For focal lengths in the range above, the image of the sun will be 8 to 25 mm (1/3 to 1 inch). As the earth rotates, the image moves 87 to 260 mm (10 image diameters) in 20 minutes.

==Rigid Parabolas==

Under this category, three major types have been identified:

Note that the section title "Rigid parabolas" is not shown as a title. The "==" before and after it should make it appear as a title, but this isn't happening. Also, this title is not appearing in the table of contents.

There are several other titles further down the article where the same thing is happening. Also, the spacing between lines is often wrong.

This problem suddently appeared this afternoon. Previously, these titles and spaces were displayed properly.

Previously, I had problems when I was editing something and tried to go into "source" mode. A pop-up appeared saying that I had made edits and not saved them, which was not true. I managed to work around this by exiting from the editor and going back in. For some reason, it worked ok the second time.

Occam's Razor suggests that there is just one thing wrong that is causing all the problems. I hope this is true!

DOwenWilliams 01:32, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

P.S. SCREAM! I showed you the error, but the damned thing corrected it *here*! Anyway, take a look at the actual article, and you'll see that that section title is shown wrongly.

DOwenWilliams 01:32, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

(i) Shallow parabolas, where the focus is outside the rim of the reflector

The problem was that the first set of equal signs was on a different line. Everything has to be on the same line like this:

==Rigid Parabolas==

Tom Sponheim 04:55, January 9, 2012 (UTC
But how did it get to be on a different line? It wasn't originally. As seen on my screen, it wasn't on a different line even after the problem appeared.
Actually, the line arangement of the whole article is thoroughly messed up. Lots of big blank spaces have appeared. Several other headings, such as "Scheffler Cookers", still appear wih equals signs, which appear to me to be on one line.
Maybe we should just go back to a previous version of the article, prior to the edits I made yesterday. Can I do that? I'm sure you can.
DOwenWilliams 16:07, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
I rolled the page back to your earlier version. You can still see your changes by following this link. You'll see your changes in red on the left. Tom Sponheim 22:17, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Hi Tom:

You didn't go back quite far enough. I managed to go back one step further, and saved a version which looks just fine. So the article is now in good shape, as far as I can see. The edit I did after this version was originally saved was just a trivial cosmetic thing. I'm not going to invite trouble by trying to do it again!

Actually, I'm leery of doing any more edits on this article, unless something new crops up. I feel like I'm walking in a minefield. The article in its present form is pretty good, I think. I'll just leave it as it is.


DOwenWilliams 22:58, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

You shouldn't worry about editing. I've made 19k edits and I've never encountered that problem. Edit away and I'll fix anything that pops up. Tom Sponheim 06:57, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

I'll probably come back to it someday, but at present I have a strong impression that there's a bug somewhere which I'd prefer not to encounter again. When I "published" the current version of the article yesterday, the result was a mess. I managed to go back and published the exact same version again, and this time the result looked fine. What was different? I have no idea.

Do you have any way of counting how many people read articles like this? An awful lot of the information in it is very old, dating back to the 1980s or earlier, and can't have much relevance now. Also, a lot of it reflects Indian cultural priorities, heaping praise on individual people in a way that we wouldn't do in the West, and making me feel quite uncomfortable. I don't know how other readers feel about it.

DOwenWilliams 16:08, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

Hey Tom,

How are you doing. Me and my team are working hard on expanding the project to more communities in the contry. i will update my page as soon as we are done with the first phase.




Hi Tom; I just noticed that Appropedia has a nice article on Solar Cooking with kind words about this wiki.[1] Best wishes, Walter Siegmund (talk) 16:07, March 18, 2012 (UTC)

Solar ca

Hi Tom:

Thanks for getting rid of that "Solar ca" category I accidentally created.

You've probably noticed that I've edited the "Appropedia" page to include more information. I do quite a lot of writing for Appropedia, Wikipedia, and here. Sometimes, I find myself writing the same thing three times. It's better, I think, to have cross-links between these wikis, to avoid unnecessary duplication. Making users here aware of the existence of Appropedia should be helpful for everyone.


David DOwenWilliams 01:26, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

Partial translations

Hi Tom:

Just for fun, I tried looking at the automatic translations of the Parabolic solar reflectors page into other languages. I'm reasonably fluent in Spanish and French, so I wondered if the translations into these languages would make sense to me.

They're not bad, as far as they go, but they are incomplete! Part-way through the article, each translation switches into English. The rest of the article is not translated.

Maybe the translator can't cope with an article that long. Maybe it's a setting that could be adjusted.

Any hope of fixing it?


DOwenWilliams 19:01, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know of any way to adust how much Google translates. I'll do a test and see if Bing translates more of the article. I agree that the translations are pretty darn good at least for French and Spanish. I remember the Dutch and German being much rougher though.
Eventually we're hoping to make the Compendium articles somewhat shorter. We want to take out the long lists of individual cookers and make each of these articles contain good general information (like you have been adding) while still linking to individual pages about the various cookers. This should get around the partial translation problem. Thanks again for great contributions to the site.
Tom Sponheim 17:12, April 2, 2012 (UTC)
Yes. I agree that the article should be substantially shortened. At its present length, it not only causes problems with the translator, it is also extremely slow to load, and difficult to read. Much of the material ia long out of date and nowadays essentially useless. I have thought of deleting some of this old stuff, but haven't done so since the people who contributed it are still around and might be upset. Maybe they should be gently encouraged to clean up and update their contributions.
You're welcome. I enjoy doing it.
DOwenWilliams 15:06, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Hi Tom,

i am a manufacturer of solar cooker. I just added the image of the cooker i manufacture in Cooker manufacturer - India list. But how do i add my company name in the list of manufactures and link the image with the company page to describe the feature etc of the cooker.


Subhasispaul 13:24, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

bad category

Hi Tom:

Sorry. I messed up again. At the bottom of the Solar calculations page, you'll see a category:

Parabolic cooker plans,Solar cooker plans

I thought I could add two categories, separated with a comma. Obviously, it didn't work, and I can't fix it. Help!

Live and learn.

David DOwenWilliams 03:14, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Why is Solar calculations in red? Looks ok to me.

red line

Hi Tom. Me again. :-(

Thanks for fixing that bad category.

There's still a problem with the Solar calculations page. As you see, the name keeps coming up in red. Clicking on it leads to an editing page with no content. On the other hand, typing "Solar calculations" into the "Search This Wiki" window at the top-right corner works just fine.

Any clues?


DOwenWilliams 00:46, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

If you are linking to a Category page you have to use this syntax: [[:Category:Solar calculations|Solar calculations]]
Tom Sponheim 00:49, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. It was the initial colon that was messing me up. DOwenWilliams 01:47, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

Dear Sir

I am the Founder and the Current Chaorman of the Lady fatemah (a.s.) Charitable Trust (

We are interested in solar cooker panels as wer your web site for FREE distribution to Widos and Poor Families in Iraq and Lebanon.

Please assist me where to get them and or whom to contact.

Best regards

Karim (

Missing images

Hi Tom:

I don't often scan down to the very bottom of the Parabolic solar reflectors page, so I've only today noticed that some images are missing, just above the "Quick notes" title. I guess they could have been missing for a while.

I don't think they're any great loss. They didn't add much to the article. But since they're gone. I guess their titles should be deleted too.

David DOwenWilliams 02:10, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to remove them then. Thanks. Tom Sponheim 05:39, May 8, 2012 (UTC)


I just left a message with the events e-mail address I'm copying this to you as well.

My goal was to triple the number of people I speak to, demonstrate cooking in front of and more this year.... Solar cooking makes as much sense to me as riding a bicycle locally, its smart.

Anyway, here is the copy...

If interested in attending a hands on solar cooking build class, Ben Brown, will be offering solar cooker builds and demonstrations with the, Solar Cooking in Michigan Program, via EarthApprentice and partners this summer.

June 6, 2012, Solar Cooker Display. Hastings Public Library, Sustainability Facts and Fun at the Library, 227 E. State Street, Hastings, Michigan 49058. 269-945-4263.

July 13, 2012, Solar Cooker Build Fundraiser for GLRE. (with a later back up date in case of rain.) Great Lakes Renewable Energy, 257 N. Bridge St., Dimondale, MI 48821. 517-646-6269.

August 16, 2012. Solar Cooker Build. Pierce Cedar Creek Institute 701 W. Cloverdale Rd, Hastings, MI 49058 269-721-4190.


September 16, 2012, Solar Cooking Presentation, 11:30am-6:30pm.

Southwest Michigan Community Harvest Fest

Tillers International, Cook’s Learning Center, 10515 East O.P. Ave, Scotts, Michigan 49088 800-498-2700

Meanwhile... I'm trying to figure out what my pswrd and username is...

Shining success to you and yours and us all,

Ben Brown

EarthApprentice 03:30, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

Hey Tom,

This is Matt West.

I've made some changes to my page lately.

I appreciate having a place to share my experiments.

I hope they do someone some good.

Please tell me how many views my page has had. Or, at least, I'd like to know how to look for myself.


Matt West

P.S. The email address is no longer active.

The username PROUDMUTT is no longer active. 03:11, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

Math in text

Hi Tom:

Thanks for fixing the problem that cropped up involving mathematical formulas, etc., in the Parabolic solar reflectors page.

I notice that you (or whoever) deleted a lot of my uses of "scriptstyle". Were these the cause of the problem? I like scriptstyle. It looks nicer than simple math. I have used it a lot, both here and elsewhere, and have never previously seen any difficulty with it. But if it causes problems, please let me know and I will avoid it in future.

Thanks again.


DOwenWilliams (talk) 17:27, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Hi Tom,

Have just spent a little time rabbiting on about myself and my idears. Hope they will be of interest to you.

Think your site is great and hope we can exchange idears and thoughts.

Best wishes and thanks Roy  (Welshdragon)


Hi Tom:

You may not be aware that some ferocious editing has recently been done (and may still be being done) to the "Solar Cooker" page on Wikipedia. A lot of good stuff has been deleted, including all references to SCIN. It appears that a hyper-zealous editor has decided the SCIN is a commercial organization, so anything that refers to it is spam. This editor, who calls him/herself "Cantaloupe2", obviously thinks he has improved the page. Actually, in my view, he has wrecked it.

I think it might be useful if you were to write a new page in Wikipedia about Solar Cookers International Network, emphasizing its non-commercial nature. Then, if melon-head permits the new page to continue to exist, maybe we could re-introduce some of the deleted material to the Solar Cooker page, with lots of links to the new page. Just possibly, this may keep Cantaloupe2 at bay. Possibly...

Best wishes.

DOwenWilliams (talk) 14:57, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! We'll look into it. Tom Sponheim (talk) 20:21, August 23, 2013 (UTC)


  • 嗨!你好,我從來沒有在使用中國的wiki喔!我來自台灣不是中國!--Msnhinet8 (talk) 23:41, October 13, 2013 (UTC)


In researching solar cookers, I see a lot about CooKit.  I don't want to reinvent the wheel, so I am interested in this.  I leave in 2 weeks for Kenya where I hope to be influential in promoting solar cooking.  One person in Mexico used a car windshield shade - the kind that has a reflective side - and just curling it so that it focuses the energy.  I have tried that and find that there is some good energy produced, but the shades are not available in Kenya.  I keep seeing reference to the CooKit and figure it must be a proven design.  I would love to know if it can be used to cook ugali - a staple food in Kenya.  I am told if it can't there is not as much use for it.

Does anybody have that kind of information?  Can the CooKit be used for ugali?

PHIL PALISE (talk) 01:22, October 24, 2013 (UTC)Phil Palise

Browser glitches

Hi Tom:

I used to use the browser Internet Explorer 8 on this wiki. It used to work just fine. However, recently I have not been able to make it work. On the Parabolic solar reflectors page, for example, all the graphics are missing, the list of recent changes does not load, and the editor also does not load.

I thought these problems were some new bug in the wiki. However, I recently found that everything works fine if I use Google Chrome. For some reason, SCInet works on some browsers, but not others, and this is a recent phenomenon.

I am sure that a lot of users of this wiki use older browsers, and may now be unable to access it properly, and probably don't know why.

Can this be fixed?

DOwenWilliams (talk) 22:19, February 26, 2014 (UTC)

Hi, David. I have submitted this bug to Wikia. Thanks! Tom Sponheim (talk) 18:09, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

Returning ads

Hi Tom,

I haven't heard from you, so I just wanted to be sure that you got my email on May 5, about the end of the ad-free wikis program.  I have cancelled the payments, and added an extra free month, which means that ads will be returning on June 17

I'm sorry if the email didn't get to you, and I'm sorry the program has had to end.  Regards -- sannse @fandom (help forum | blog) 22:47, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

Hi Tom, the ads are due to go back on again this week. I'm a bit worried about the effects on your main page... it may need a tweak. Using main page column tags would help a lot - that ensures that the top ad doesn't clash with anything. You may also need to move your narrow column to the right instead of the left.
I can do those changes for you before turning the ads back on, if that would help? Or I could arrange for a more extensive re-do of the main page for you. Our Community Development team could make you something that would work with the ads and give you a fresh look too. Just let me know if you want this option
Thanks -- sannse @fandom (help forum | blog) 23:36, June 23, 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for your concern. The notice of the return of the ads has been quite a trauma for our group and we appreciate your taking the time to contact us personally. Our site seeks to solve one of the major problems facing the planet at this time, and it is such a shame to have to mix ads of all kinds into that mission. Please go ahead and make the minor changes that you mention. We can take it from there. Again, thank you. Tom Sponheim (talk) 05:16, June 24, 2014 (UTC)
Hi Tom
I understand the consternation, and if there is anything I can do in the future to improve the situation, I will do my best. But for now, I've made the tweaks to the main page, and am happy to do more (or to get more expert help to do some extra work on it) if that helps at any time
If you have feedback or complaints on specific ads, you can find a section for that on the contact form. And please don't hesitate to let me know if I can help further in any other way -- sannse @fandom (help forum | blog) 17:51, June 24, 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! Will do. Tom Sponheim (talk) 23:08, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

(Willard.taylor.77 (talk) 16:13, July 25, 2014 (UTC))I AM NEW TO COMPUTORS PLEASE CONTACT ME i am having difficulty contacting anyone who can help me with info to get started promoting almost nonexistent solar cooking  in the dominican republic thankyouWillard.taylor.77 (talk) 16:13, July 25, 2014 (UTC)

One Umbroiler accounted for. Where are the rest?

Hello Tom,

I own one of George Lof's Umbroiler Solar Cookers.

My name is Greg Brabander, collector of all things mid-century modern vintage. The closer to the fringe these vintage items are, the better.  If it is usually considered to be exoctic (including exoctica but nowhere close to being limited to) or possibly an exocticly cool thing a person might own, I do my best to acquire such items because I find them interesting, fascinating, and most often and above all, beautiful.

One of my beatifully exotic finds about 25 years ago at the Goldenwest Swap Meet in Huntington Beach, CA, is an Umbroiler, complete, and unused in the box. I'm almost positive I paid $5 for it back around 1990.

It seems ever since I first logged on to the internet in 1997, I would search at least once every other year for info on the Umbroiler I own. But each time I would come up empty, until now!

I write not to sell the Umbroiler, but to gain more info on it. I love my Umbroiler, but I will never ever use it. It is clean and perfect the way it is. And without a doubt, one of my more bizarre prized possesions :-) And since I have never been able to find out any in depth information on the Umbroiler, I can not help but wonder how many more are out there? If it is very few, my Umbroiler may be worth a small fortune, but I kind of doubt it. One thing for sure, it IS a museum piece. The Umbroiler itself is pretty much flawless. And the box is complete and intact with a few small tears. Unfortunately a couple of the instruction sheets are damaged. 2 out of 3 instruction sheets included (the instruction sheets located on the underside of the box lid) are completely faded. The sheet in the middle (#2 of 3) looks fine, with only minimal fading. At least they aren't a total loss.

On the off chance you may know someone with the instructions that I might be allowed to copy, I truly would appreciate that. And if you are a busy man, please take your time to respond. I am in no hurry whatsoever. I have waited this long, I think I can wait a little bit longer. So when you find the time, if you are able to shed some additional light on mainly how many are left, what they are worth, and or whether the Umbroiler I own should be donated to a museum, and if so, who? Any additional information you could share would greatly be appreciated. I look forward to learning more about this funky item I have owned and marveled at for all these years :-)

Greg Brabander

PS I don't have my camera with me. But when I do have it back, I will be sure to share pictures of my Umbroiler. What will be very noticeable is how much different my umbroiler looks to the picture on this website of a person placing bacon on an Umbroiler. The umbroiler in the picture appears to be made of a much sturdier material, possibly polished solid metal plates to make up the umbrella surface. Mine is more like foil lined Levi's. And the grill in the picture has a lip around the edge. Not here, just a flat grate. You shall see soon.

Hi Tom, How do I sign in when I do not know my user name? I put in Berta Nelson and bertanelson and neither is recognized so I cannot create a password. Please help. Thanks.

Hello Tom, 

I wish you club my two accounts into one. This account is connected with my FB. and my page is Let me know if it is possible. Also I have not signed up with my email id. 


Hi, Tom

I'm Vivien and I'm a student from Malaysia.

Recently, I'm taking part in a competition about doing solar cooker. By chance coincidence, I found the web page of Wikia which introduces a solar cooker named SolaReflex Pyramid. I fond of the design and I want to do something similar with the product for my competition. However, my information about this solar cooker is very limited.

Therefore, I sincerely hope that you could provide the following information to me:

1) Is there any specific angle of the pyramid to reflect the light ray?

2) What are the materials to do SolaReflex Pyramid?

3) Does the size of the pyramid affect the reflection of the light ray or the time for the food to be cooked?

4) Could you provide a clearer picture of SolaReflex Pyramid to me as references?

If my request would harm your company interests, I apologize in advance. But I sincerely hope that you could provide that information to me because this competition is quite important to me. However, I want to declare that the finished product of mine would not be commercial purposes.

You feel free to contact me through my email,

Thanks for Your Precious Time. I'm Looking Forward to Hearing from You.

Limvivien27 (talk) 08:09, April 2, 2016 (UTC)Vivien inclusion

Hi Tom,

Today we launched a new initiative called and a part of this program is a set of wikis we consider "Communities Dedicated to Doing Good". We have decided to include this wiki in the program. As part of this select group of wikis, we'll be turning ads off on this community. I'm wondering if you (and your other admins) would be willing to change the wordmark here to one with a badge? Here's what we've created for you: 


All you'd need to do is replace your current wordmark with this new one via Theme Designer. 

Thanks, Tom. Have a great day -

Jen Burton@fandom (help forum | blog) 15:51, October 4, 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, Jen. I see that ads are off on the Main page for all users, but they are still appearing on all of the other pages even for logged-in users. Is Wikia planning to turn these off as well?
Hmmm. I'm not seeing any ads on the pages. Any chance what you're seeing is the Trending Fandom Articles module? If so, I am not able to turn that off. Jen Burton@fandom (help forum | blog) 17:23, October 4, 2016 (UTC)
Yes, that's what I'm seeing. I guess I mistook that for ads. I'm checking with the Sacramento office about changing the wordmark. Thanks for the quick response! Tom Sponheim (talk) 17:40, October 4, 2016 (UTC)
Hello, Jen. Please communicate our appreciation to your colleagues about the program. It will really help us get the word out about solar cooking, which supports all of the new United Nations Sustainable Development Goals. More people die from breathing cooking smoke than die from Malaria and AIDS combined! Tom Sponheim (talk) 22:40, October 6, 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Tom. Wondering if you've heard back from Sacramento regarding changing the wordmark here? Thanks - Jen Burton@fandom (help forum | blog) 15:11, October 12, 2016 (UTC)
Not yet. We are considering a change to our logo and we want to combine the two issues. Tom Sponheim (talk) 16:57, October 12, 2016 (UTC)
Sounds good - thanks. Jen Burton@fandom (help forum | blog) 22:38, October 12, 2016 (UTC)

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